NIELS: Cool, welcome, welcome to a new episode of the No Bullshit Online Marketing Podcast with Sebastian Vogg. #00:00:58#
SEBASTIAN: Moin Niels. #00:00:58#
NIELS: And our special guest today, Richard. Hello. #00:01:02#
RICHARD:Hi guys. Moin. #00:01:04#
NIELS: Exactly, today we got Richard, who is now a bit of my contact. I've known him for quite a long time, even from my student days back then in the idyllic little town of Freiberg. Phew. That was quite a few years ago, but Richard has, as far as offline business is concerned, a lot to do with online marketing and we often neglect all the other things that go with it. And that's why we brought in a professional today and that's why I would ask you, Richard, first of all to tell us a little bit about your background. And then we'll pick up there. #00:01:47#
RICHARD:Okay, cool. First of all, thanks for the invitation. Podcast is always super exciting and especially the topic you are dealing with is trend-setting for the future. And still you need somewhere behind every strategy, whether online or offline, functioning business in the long run. Otherwise, I think it will go wrong at some point. First of all, a little bit of my story. I come from the financial sector. I did a dual study program there and at some point I realized that money, dealing with money, is very necessarily connected with attitude, mindset, beliefs, education and so on. Yes. And then, based on this system, I started "Level up" together with another friend, Matthias. Because we just said, "Okay, if we somehow manage to change our environment, to bring our environment further, to bring it to the next level, that's where the name comes from, then it's also clearly more relaxed for us." Because, you know, if people grow, then we automatically grow with them. That was the idea of how it all started back then. As I said, it all started in your tranquil little town of Freiberg. That's where I was born and grew up. Then I went to Düsseldorf to study and then it was clear to me, okay, the flagpole in Freiberg is over at some point, I'm going to beautiful Dresden. There, the whole community picked up a bit more speed. We have a meeting every week, a workshop so to speak. #00:03:11#
NIELS: Can I give you a very brief input on that, because that was our original connection point, to give you a little bit of context. At that time, the network marketing hype was just so on the rise. I was in on that, too. And from my experience, events like this were used to recruit people somehow. And I was initially a bit critical of this topic, because Richard and his colleague Matthias held a weekly event on all kinds of topics in personal development. You could then choose a main area accordingly. And then there were 15 sub-topics. And it's amazing, they prepared everything in a totally professional way, certainly one and a half hours of content on each sub-topic, which totaled about 60 pieces or so. So it's a very impressive thing, over a period of years. And now it has scaled from the small town to Dresden, in the Startup Hub, on a larger scale. And that as a context on top of that. Richard, please continue. Great thing. #00:04:21#
RICHARD:Thank you. Yes, you have to start somewhere. And we just realized, okay, you need a mentor somewhere in your life. You need people to push you forward. I had a good environment back in my younger years. I had a good mentor, with René, who inspired me there. Who taught me basic skills. And then we just went to super many seminars. Read a lot of books. Podcasts. And educated ourselves on all kinds of things that seemed important to us, and then we said, "Okay, we've got it anyway, let's just work it up again and then pass it on." Yes, and that's how it went, initially in small groups, small teams, of about five people were there. Then there were ten of us. And now in Dresden we always have between 40 and 50 people at the events. And you have to say that we haven't conquered the online world yet. So everything is still analog and only word-of-mouth. But now, in June, we're switching to the next level, with an online area, with membership. Yes, and that then there again completely new level of going ahead. Yes, that then brought into being. And then the thing brought with it that people have said at some point: "Hey cool, you have inspired us, you have given us something. And I'm at the point now, I know what I want. I know what I want to do. I know roughly what I want to build my business out of now. How do I do that now?" And then we were faced with a whole new challenge. I've been self-employed since I was 19, and then Simon came on board, who also went into self-employment very young. And we then knew how to start companies, how to run companies, what matters, how to keep an eye on your numbers. And then we said, "Okay, we'll do it together with you. So we can do that anyway and then we'll actually give you everything that you might not know yet," because most people have a lot of respect for numbers, for taxes, for the law, and so on, because they think, "What am I doing wrong? Business registration. For many, this is already a huge act. A business registration costs 30 euros and then you are able to make invoices and get started. And for many people it's like, "What? Your own business?" At that moment you are a sole proprietorship. It starts there. And yes, as a result of this, the idea of participation arose and now we have made, I don't know, with Max a month and a half ago, two months ago, the tenth participation. So we got the tenth company off the ground. Which is also up and running. And we're supporting it intensively, so to speak. We have monthly meetings, we have events where we pull all the managing directors together and then have a pretty cool brainstorming session. You really do have an environment of decision-makers. And that's kind of moved into the main focus now. Where I'm like, "Okay, this is just moving forward right now." And yes, that is summarized a bit very briefly now. Forgotten some stuff too, I'm sure, but that's roughly the story. #00:06:57
SEBASTIAN:Very, very nice. I am also a big fan of the whole topic. I also used to do NLP and, like Niels, I've also come across all this stuff, the network, inevitably. A bit like that. Exactly. You've already mentioned a little bit that you've done everything analog, so far. And relatively basic. And now you're also moving into the online area. What would you say, if you look at it objectively, what are the main differences from your eyes from offline to online business? #00:07:37#
RICHARD:So the first thing is the speed, I think. I think that's the biggest difference, that online is much faster. And that goes hand in hand with the fact that it's still, you have to be even better. I have the feeling that in the online area, the winner takes it all. In the offline sector, it's still the same. Even if you're not quite as good, you can still swim along and find a little bit of a nibble. I think in the online sector you're either the best, the fastest or the newest or nothing. Yes, and if you don't have a clue about online, then it doesn't matter how fast you are, you just have to know what you're doing and how you're doing it. Otherwise you'll waste a lot of money and nothing will come out of it. Not like in the offline sector, where you say, "Okay, I'll maybe attend x events or do x acquisition courses and then I'll have a good quota." I think that in the online sector it's just like that, either it's really good and it's going really well, or the money is just gone. And that doesn't come so passively, so two or three things. It just comes nothing. #00:08:39#
SEBASTIAN:I think it's a bit like that, to tie in with that, it's more the speed, it's just, in quotation marks, more error-prone, you just have more of your points. This can make it more difficult, as you said, to increase performance in the online area. So that is, one sees it already, if Niels now for example, ...#00:09:00# 60 percent ...#00:09:04# for example. So that alone shows how important it is to be the first in your field. Yes. Cool.
RICHARD:And another point, which I also believe is that it is becoming increasingly important to master the combination of quality and, let's call it, volume. I believe that the more digital an area becomes, the less decisive the quality of the thing is at first, but how good your marketing ultimately is, how well you then suggest it to the outside world. So if you look at, you mentioned marketing earlier, how much crap is distributed there. So really, I don't want to say fraud, but we're a long, long way from quality. And yet people buy it, people click it, people sign up. And where I think we live in a time or have arrived in a time where it's no longer the best product or the best service that automatically also generates the most customers and acquisition stuff, but simply the one that's best in positioning there. #00:10:05#
SEBASTIAN:Yes, probably the combination of brand and good product. But of course a good product is not automatically a good product, it may just be well charged.
RICHARD:Exactly, only if you have a good product, but you are not able to pack online in the strategy, then you won't really generate sales from there in the future. No matter how good it is. Even if it were price performance really the very best, the only thing is if you can't get it marketed, then it's for the garbage can. #00:10:38#
NIELS: I would like to take another very brief look at the curve, because I think it's quite interesting. Can you answer again very briefly, in what period of time did you now help pull up these ten companies? #00:10:53#
RICHARD:So it's very important for me to always say at this point that it's not me, but us. So alone, that is also a very important basic massage, alone I think nothing would be there. I think it's only through the combination with Simon and Matthias that a team's quick-wittedness and complexity has emerged that has made this possible. The period is so the last year and a half, two years. #00:11:17#
NIELS: And I think that's just interesting in the combination, because in such a short period of time, to get so much going, have you meanwhile, or have you meanwhile developed a certain process in some form (RICHARD: Yes, of course.) to which one can somehow orient oneself? Because I have the feeling with me and with many who are active in our field, it's just kind of sprinting and trying to keep everything in the race somehow still, yes, together. And seeing what happens. #00:11:50#
RICHARD:Absolutely. I also believe that this is very important. So if you want to start up or launch something, that you really do have a plan. That you have a structure and that you also have a process. Yes, and when the companies start up with us, and we say: "Yes, we'll do it," then the first customers are usually already acquired and then the process more or less starts. We register the business, go to the notary, found the company and then you already have the regulated process. That has to do with how to set up the business account, pay the capital contribution, the IT package, data security, office package. How does it continue. We give them a one-day workshop together with a coach. It's all about the company's vision, mission and values. And they bang all that out in one day. There's a to-do list, they get a checklist, and then it's more or less the automation of business ideas. That's a bit of what's behind it. And of course the human factor. I think that's something that can get lost in the online world. This, yes, this human closeness. Belonging and that just the-. It's not anonymous, but you still sometimes have a person sitting here who asks: "I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to go on. I'm scared shitless." And that, no matter how blatant you scale, no matter how blatant you are out there, you still have those setbacks or those moments. And that's where you still have to just function as a human being then as well. #00:13:09#
NIELS: Have you, well that was just a bit of a kick start, how it's going to go. Are there, do you have some kind of milestones somehow, which you then envisage? Let's say, now we just have the phase of the foundation and that okay, we have to start structured now. That's how it sounded to me now. And how would you now, let's say we have an online company standing here now that has just gone through this process, how would it proceed at your table of decision makers? What would you guys take on or how would you handle that? #00:13:47#
RICHARD:So next, numbers have to be on the table. Realistic figures. So that means you have to look at, okay, how do I pay health insurance, how do I pay rent, how do I have reserves, how do I pay my taxes, how do I pay the first tax prepayment. And you can put all that in a big financial plan, in planning. And then at the end of the month, there's exactly one number, what the company has to earn, so that you, so it's very important that you have a clear head. That you say, "Okay, my business is generating me an entrepreneurial salary a month." So that's what you need to pay yourself. It doesn't matter whether you're a sole proprietorship or a UG or a GmbH, that you mentally pay yourself a salary into another account where you say, "Okay, I have my head free. I don't have to worry about basic stuff anymore. I have light in the refrigerator," I always say so beautifully. Because that frees you from fear and you can use the potential that's in you to realize it. That is very, very important. We give that to the people and then you first see, okay bam, the company has to earn six, seven, eight, nine, ten thousand euros relatively quickly so that you can survive in the here and now and maintain the standard of living that is important to you. But at the same time, you also have a budget for expansion and investment. Because, as I said, when the first, second year is over, and you then go to the tax office for the first time. Then they say: "Okay, yes, pay the tax the year before last, pay the tax last year and then you pay me the first quarterly advance payment." Yes, and then for many the store is closed again. Because I think the tax office is the worst creditor of all. They just close the thing. #00:15:13#
SEBASTIAN:Yes, I'm in the situation myself right now, advance payment, repayment last year. I'll put it this way, I live humble and try to save all my money there, and I'm not particularly, yes, I don't have to wear it outwardly as a status symbol. Accordingly, I have a lot of cash on the side. But if you don't have that, then that's, especially if you make a decent turnover, then you really have a fat roundhouse kick. So that's really intense. #00:15:45#
NIELS: And we are still in the fortunate position of having very low fixed costs. That's why it can't break our neck as quickly as it might for others who have to earn significantly more. And yes, exactly, but still a factor in any case.
RICHARD:Yes, but that's super crass. People then see a five-figure result for the first time in the month. "Yeah, bam, I made ten thousand euros. Boar. Crass. The world is open to me. I'm a different person now, it's all forward now." And then it starts. And bang, then it goes to the dealership and says, "Come on, give it to him. I can pay for everything. Ten thousand euros." And then it's like, for some, it clicks off then. So you notice that this euphoria changes and then the, I don't want to say the head stops, but there just the numbers that run in the background are briefly faded out. And if you then press the wrong button one, two, three times, then you suddenly have a huge machine and it's not yet said that something will happen. It's just that you might have a bad month. #00:16:47#
SEBASTIAN: I think people's understanding is just not long term, they just think short term, they have their 10K, but they don't even think in terms of sales tax. Okay. Or trade tax. You know, all the small stuff that comes on top when you're sitting with your tax advisor, if you have a tax advisor at all. That's already clear. So you're absolutely right. And it's also a bit of short-term thinking and just a bit of piano. And only when you say, now I've rushed through a few months and it's going well and it's going uphill, then maybe you can think about something like that. But you will have already seen one or the other who didn't do that in your time. #00:17:27#
RICHARD:Yes, although it has to be said that, of course, the character trait of someone who starts his own business is usually already one step ahead of someone who never deals with self-realization. And he is easier to sensitize or perhaps sensitizes himself, much easier to say, "Okay, no. Relax like this. I have self-realization through the company. I might not have to order something on Amazon every day now to feel good." Yeah, so consumption is a substitute drug, after all. (NIELS: Absolutely.) Yeah, and that's where it goes, so even with us, it's all going great. The guys and gals, they've all got themselves under control, and you want to treat yourself to something when you've been going crazy for 60, 70 hours a week for the first few months. That has to be possible. Yes, but that brings us back to the point: planning. Something has to come out of it. Your time, your lifetime has a value. And you have to enforce it. Because otherwise you don't need to be self-employed, because there are enough white-collar jobs where you can earn good money. Whether that is the fulfillment then, is another topic. But you don't have to break yourself. #00:18:28#
NIELS: And if we now maybe tie in, since we just also so, if one is young and self-employed, what three mistakes, outside perhaps of the money issue now, do you see with so young entrepreneurs, who now just found their company? #00:18:41#
RICHARD:Taking the money issue out of it, I think that a lot of young people, nevertheless, start because of the money in part and not because of self-realization. And I believe that if you start something because of the money, then it goes against the wall. Because money follows meaning and not the other way around. And especially so many young generations, I see it on social media, Instagram and so on, it's not about creating a good product, a good service or an added value, but just being rich and horny and Gucci belts and bam, bam, bam. And that's just not substance. That's just what goes wrong. The other issue, which is another big mistake, is the environment. If you want something to change, you can't keep things the way they are. And you will also notice that in your environment. That one or the other goes along your way or is interested in it or supports you. But there will also be many from the environment, at some point we all start. Yes. And then you change. Then people say, "Yeah, you've become so different." You have to be able to channel that and question yourself whether the change is good or whether it's a bad change. But most people don't mean any harm, but they still hold you back for the time being. That's the second thing. So the topic of environment, very, very important, to select there and to look, who also fits on my future path. And the third topic is, I think, consistency. Because I believe that when you say, okay, I'm going to do something now, that doesn't mean you try to step on the gas for a weekend and then I'll see. But either you do it completely or you don't do it at all. Put in three months, even in a part-time job, I mean, as a normal employee you work 40 hours. Sure, you're exhausted after that, but that doesn't mean your day is over. Instead of now watching four hours of Netflix every day and then waiting until it's finally Saturday and the Bundesliga is on, but just saying, "Okay, and now bite it for three, four months, really every week for another ten hours, another 20 hours. Really invest in the thing," so that you can eventually make the leap from maybe a side job or side business, into your own thing. Because otherwise, just saying, "Ah yeah, I tried it, but I didn't make it." Most of them didn't even really try, they wanted to and then it broke off doing it again. Those are kind of the three things. #00:20:52#
NIELS: Very, very good input. What I would find interesting to know in this context, with the recommendations, when we think about the topic of personal development and think about self-development, so what meanwhile pops up with me are Istagram stroies in which then just a lot of quasi ruminated. And I think it's interesting that you're very involved in this topic. Especially with the level-up project and from the personality there is rather a different type. Because that's already quite straight here right now. Quite straightforward, quite in your face. Give us a reference to the topic of personality development, which often drifts into the spiritual direction or into the less tangible direction. From your rational, straight perspective. #00:21:46#
RICHARD:So I solved this through Matthias and Simon. In my opinion, every person has his or her own characteristics and ways of prioritizing. And if I now, for example, meet a person who, like you for example, I know from you, also has a very straight way, we can talk and you understand what I mean and you don't feel attacked by it. If I say: "Niels, I think you're doing shit right now." Then you relate it to the project and say: "Okay, how can we do it differently?", but you don't stand there and say: "Bor, Richard, really mean. And then he said, that's my mission." And there are also people who need it differently. They simply have a greater need for harmony, and when I talk to them like that, they take it the wrong way. I mean it nicely, I mean it well, but they can't take it that way at that moment. And I'm not in a position to put it in a nice way without having to pretend. And then I need Matthias, for example, who has much more patience, much more sensitivity and is also much more of a people person. He always says: "Yes, come here first. We'll sit next to each other and then we'll hug a bit and have a good time. And do you want another water?" And with that, he first has access to a person who is worth just as much as someone who maybe needs the straight way, and he then understands it. I think personality development is also a lot about being able to speak or understand another language. I'm not talking about English and French. I'm not talking about English or French, but that you check, okay, it's someone who needs a different way of dealing with people and I can still serve them. I can still understand how I have to package it, so that my good intention, which I mean well, is also received by him. Because otherwise I say something that I mean well and it comes across to him in the wrong way and then that's stupid. And then it's wasted life energy on both sides. And of course that also requires a lot of travel with yourself. So you have to burn, if I mirror another person, something actually pisses me off about him, what pisses me off about myself and I just blame it on him, because it's easier. Or who am I? Yes, what are my strengths? What are my real strengths? Yes, and if I have a very straight vein, for example, then the subject of harmony on the other side is probably not so well occupied. It's just a weakness. And it's also completely good that it's there. But I shouldn't try to build something on this weakness, I have to be able to delegate it or hand it over to someone else. And so, yes, the topic of personality development is to deal with one's own points, to go into oneself. So, what can I do, what can I not do? What am I really good at? What do I enjoy doing? Because it is precisely in this area that you will celebrate your maximum successes, because you simply have a talent there, you have a gift there, and you don't have to do much, because you say exactly: "Um, this is mine. This is easy. I can talk to people like that, it comes across. That's cool." And if you just never deal with it, because you just think you have to please somebody. Yes, in our school, it's not that you, in our school system, what's in you doesn't come into play, but you learn by heart. You have to fit into some grid. And then people are surprised that no personalities come out of there who go their own way. How? If they are now told for twelve years: "This is right. And this is wrong. And there is no in between:" #00:24:51#
SEBASTIAN:Would you then say, if you now take the whole personal development topic, is it more important to have the skill first or do you need the skill before you-, so to speak, is that the passion for a project? If you say to everyone, "I'm doing SEO now," Niels has often trained in SEO, I've done Facebook ads. If I hadn't done the groundwork in the personal development area, would you say it probably wouldn't have gone so well? It's a blanket statement, difficult to say, sure. But would you say that the groundwork in Personal Development should be done first before you build anything or during? #00:25:30#
RICHARD:For example, when I hire people, I sometimes don't look at their résumés. Because I don't really care. If the person convinces me and I notice that the value base is right, that he's hungry, he's committed, he goes the extra mile, then that's a thousand times more important than professional competence. Because you can always learn professional competence. Someone who wants to, will learn. He will find the energy, the time to acquire something. But if someone can do something, but doesn't really want to, then he will never become as good at it as he actually could. And that's why the mindset is more important in my eyes, because that's where the drive comes from, the motivation, than the technical competence. Because you can acquire that. Some things, of course, faster, some slower, but theoretically, especially in this day and age, the Internet is open to all of us and everything is in there. Of course, you have to be a bit selective. You can acquire that. So definitely mindset before skill. #00:26:23
SEBASTIAN:All right. Very straight. #00:26:26#
NIELS: Okay. And then I think And then I think I would round things off by saying that we have now compared a lot between the online area and the offline area, and we have also dived a little bit into personal development, which is an all-around hit of everything. What would you say are now, in this day and age, the most important business skills to go one's way? #00:26:55
RICHARD:So, if my kid wanted to study something and asked me what to do, I would say professionally, "Definitely go in the direction of IT." AI, machine learning, things like that. Because that's simply where the future market is. So much is going to happen there, you have to be able to do that, because otherwise you'll always be dependent on an external service provider. And if you're at the point now, I can decide where I'm going to get my first professional input, then definitely go in that direction. Business skills is, I think the most important thing is to have your heart in the right place. So having a value base and saying, "Okay, I can share, I'm fair. I have a sincere drive to help other people move forward because I know that's how I grow myself. I think that's even more, much more important. And then just consistency. Sit down, get off your ass and do it. Yes. Niels, you never thought: "So, yes, I'm studying now, so I can-, so studying is a full-time job." It's not like that. It's a full-time job for the person who says it's a full-time job. And right next to him sits his twin brother and he says, "Why? It's easy. I have enough time on the side." Exactly the same person, or similar person, same initial situation and one makes something out of it and the other just makes something else out of it. And I think to just go there, to do it or to just say: "Hey, look, on the Internet this guy inspires me. I'll just ask him if I can invite him for a coffee" and just listen for five minutes to what he does, how he did it, where did he start. I go to an event that I find interesting, meet-up and so on, a bunch of stuff is suggested. Just get off your ass and do something and take the first initiative. Because if you're sitting at home, on the couch, then nothing good happens to you. And then you don't have to sit down and say, "Oh yeah, I'm never lucky in life." I think that just for everybody in life, some big points and big opportunities fly by. But if the moment it's in front of your eye, like the golden snitch from Harry Potter, and you don't grab it, then you don't have the right to say, "Oooh, nothing good ever happens to me." That just doesn't work. So I think it's a matter of just going for it, just going for it, and then when the chance comes, going for it. Happiness is ultimately also just a sequence of many things. #00:29:06#
SEBASTIAN:Very cool. Mega. Mega good consensus. Thanks for being at the start. Absolutely. That's a good rounding. Yeah, other than that, Niels? Do you have anything else? #00:29:22#
NIELS: I would say people have a very charged half hour ahead of them or have had now. And I thank you for your contribution here today, Richard. Excellent. #00:29:34#
RICHARD:Yes, thank you. So time has flown by and I always find it super exciting. It's just terrific. Especially in the area in which you are active. That's just so promising, that's what's going forward and if you combine the competence that you have there with good entrepreneurial thinking and your heart in the right place, then it's such an avalanche that no one can stop it. It just goes forward. And if you don't take off and don't forget to take other people with you, because that's the thing, you grow and then at some point in my world you also have the responsibility for others. If you are good at something yourself and have found that it works, then pass it on. Then give other people the chance to become even better than you. And if you do that well in terms of values, then he will always be connected to you and give something back. And I think that's so the thing, guys, follow through. By all means, keep it up, I think it's terrific. You've reached a level where I can't keep up with you professionally. But you are experts. I don't have to know everything. Then it's good to have guys like you where you say, "Come here, make this thing round for me and shoot my numbers through the roof." #00:30:37#
NIELS:Exactly, I would close this Real Talk round with the recommendation, as I also did at that time, before I started my projects. Maybe take a look at the compressed content on the topic of personnel development that Richard and Co. offer, and that's why we'll definitely include the Level Up project. In any case, feel free to take a look at it. And then I thank you in any case and as usual, Sebastian has the last word. Do you have anything else ready? #00:31:12#
SEBASTIAN:No, actually just until the next time. Ciao. #00:31:16#
NIELS: All right. See you next time. Peace, out.
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