SEBASTIAN:Welcome to the NO BS Onlinemarketing Podcast with "Simply Dan" - DANIEL: Inch, good morning Dan. #00:00:56#
DANIEL: Yo, what's up, friends of the sun? Thanks for letting me invite myself here, yeah? You have to say, probably most of the guests were invited by you. I just facetimed with Sebastian the other day and said, "Yo fatty, when am I going to come on your podcast?" You guys want to make an episode that's successful though, right? #00:01:22#
SEBASTIAN:Yes, exactly. Yes, listen, right at the beginning nicely pure-würgt. And, Niels is of course also at the start. #00:01:23#
NIELS:Yes, welcome, welcome. Thanks for the low blow, let's go. #00:01:28#
SEBASTIAN:Yeah, we have Dan starting, Dan and I have known each other for a little bit now, for, actually, I would have thought a year, but I think it's been longer than that, you said yes. #00:01:34#
DANIEL: Yes, time passes very, very quickly and we have known each other for more than a year. I'm sure of it. #00:01:38#
SEBASTIAN:Well, the background story is, I think I saw Dan in a story by someone else that he kind of ripped off on Facebook in Munich. That was, I think, then that was just probably two years ago. (DANIEL: I think longer than that.). Then I thought, "Hey, great guy, write to me right away," as I always do, Niels Stuck would say. #00:01:56#
NIELS:A classic Sebastian Vogg bold move. ...#00:02:01#
DANIEL: Yes, yes, but it's good. At least he didn't start directly with a Dick Pic, the conversation could have gone worse for me. He had really only normal-. Hello, ey, but Sebastian quite honestly, best move, I think, you could make. Well, not that I would have helped you much, you did most of it yourself. But I think, in general, many people don't dare to do that. Just to write to someone, like that. I have no idea. So, I thought it was cool. #00:02:25#
SEBASTIAN:Yes, of course, that was just always my-. How I just ticked and I thought, yes, of course I write to them. Then came from you also immediately such a feedback, where I thought, cool guy, not so arrogant to say: "What do you want now again from me, so: "Ey, I don't got time for you." Is probably because you don't have a blue hook. #00:02:42#
DANIEL: The blue hook makes directly arrogant. I think generally you assume very, very often that people are arrogant or just do not have time, but how often have you been positively surprised and suddenly a message came back from some company you celebrate, from some person you like or something else. Sure, it doesn't always work out, so I sometimes don't get any replies either. Even from people who don't have a blue tick, but on the whole, I think you're always fully afraid of someone not writing back. But if someone doesn't write back, well, that's just the way it was. You know, the same principle, with me, I used to work in radio, was for a long time editorial director at the youth radio station, here in Berlin at Jam FN and a lot of people applied to me. And the funny thing is that I noticed at some point that people are afraid to apply because they think they're not good enough yet and are afraid that if they get a rejection, they'll never get back in. And I'm telling you, there are people sitting at the station now who have applied three or four times. Because I no longer check whether they have already applied! And it's not a question of whether you've already turned someone down once and then, because of the one-time rejection, think, "No, I can never say yes to that." But in one year, in two years, so much can happen with people, experiences they gain, content they somehow produce, so that you can try again. And you don't have to have the fear: If I get a rejection once or no answer, I'm out forever. So just do it and ask, it can often already work. And it's not you who decides whether you're good enough for something, it's the others, right? #00:04:22#
NIELS:How is it with you, what do you actually do at all? We have just talked about the fact that we know each other, but what do you actually do? #00:04:27#
DANIEL: Boah ey, I get yes-. So honestly, I really need to do something about my positioning, I think. So I think most people already know that I definitely consult Instagram. That's one of those things, at least word has gotten out. But I do more things, per se. I teach at the university, I teach informative radio informatics, I do in-house seminars on other topics, I also teach YouTube, and I also hold workshops on Snapchat when it matters. On the whole, the point is that I actually always try to get away from apps in everything that's going on in the social sphere outside of-. So in social media away from apps and paid advertising, anything that has to do with content, helping businesses there. And actually I come and try to bring a little bit of courage in, catalyze people so that they also start doing something and take away a little bit of the fear. And to give the basic mindset. Because, I think, you don't have to discuss it in detail with people, actually they should internalize this basic thinking and question their content every time and then it works out. So what I do, I help companies. And I would write that on me, in my fucking Linkedin profile, but you're not allowed to write anymore: I help, blah blah blah. I don't know when that came up at some point. Have you guys seen this? The other day, out of ten requests I got on Linkedin, eight requests had some wording in there with I help or I help blah blah blah, because some monkey, I think, once said in some startup book, "You have to, if you're selling yourself or selling a service, you have to solve a problem and help people. So write in, I'm helping companies to change their performance marketing to the-. Dicker, if I read one more time, anyone help anyone else with anything - go away. Don't bug me! I'm not helping anyone at all! I go and I challenge people and I gossip with them and something good always comes of it." Even if it's sometimes: yes, we do nothing. It can also be. Yeah, I probably help people, but I would never put it that way. So not anymore. (NIELS: But?) So I wouldn't put it that way in my Linkedin bio, let's put it that way. Simply because I don't deal with the whole-. Don't you know that at some point, phrases like that are just worn out. I don't know, they probably still work psychologically and I'm stupid for not doing it. Please. I'm probably stupid as hell for not doing so many of these things! I don't know how you guys feel about that? You guys also know that some things just work. Yes? And that when you do it, it probably just triggers something in your head. And with some things I do it and play along and with other things I think to myself: Yeah, no, it doesn't have to be. And that's part of it. So what I do, I help companies. #00:07:08#
NIELS:You help? Oh, I didn't know that at all. #00:07:09#
DANIEL: Yeah, hey I get booked for different things. Sometimes an agency comes and books me just for a brainstorming session, because they think to themselves: Hey man, Dan, he can help us make some concepts for influencer marketing, that's another mainstay, that I'm there with agencies and help them a bit. It is important that I am always free in what I do. I also choose who I work with, because I don't want to just work on some project that I don't enjoy. That's how I spend my life. It's good. And I do a little bit of Youtube, some people say I'm a Youtuber. But not like that, not per se. Except, after twice, I think, now already RTL or RTL2 asked me about Youtube topics and gave me a belly band, DANIEL: inch Youtuber. Although I told them, "Man, friends write in that I'm something else." But doesn't give a shit, in the end, if someone books me for a Youtube seminar because of that. Okay, then I'll do that too. I can do that too. It doesn't matter, they can write star chef underneath. And then I also go into a shitty restaurant and cook something away. There is, here, the king of patisserie. #00:08:10#
NIELS:Good Energy. #00:08:13#
SEBASTIAN:Yeah, man. How did you get into all this stuff? Through Jam FN or how did you get into this whole social media thing? #00:08:18#
DANIEL: Yes, well, it was actually like this, I came to Berlin back then, really back then, about ten years ago, a good ten years ago, to study politics. Before that, I had actually already worked for regional television in Munich, but I sweated a lot in front of the camera. And I didn't feel comfortable there. And then I thought to myself, "Okay, where can you chat, present, but don't have to be seen? Yeah, radio, like that." Fine. I went to Berlin. First I studied politics and after the second semester I went to the radio as an intern. I did that before it was a mandatory internship. I also recommend every student to do more than he has to, if he can. Unless he doesn't want to, yes, then I went to the radio, then I also moderated there at the radio. But as you know and Niels has already noticed, I have a bit of a screwed up language. I'm very, very direct, I don't mince words. And that's not necessarily always the best thing when you're live on air and swear words come out. Not that anyone said to me now, "Man Dan, that's not at all possible!" It was actually more the problem that I started to censor myself and then I lack the drive. Because if I have to look for a synonym for the word "fuck" or "shit", then it's just hard for me, yeah? And then I just lose that speed and quick wit, and that's why I said, "Okay, I'll do something behind the scenes." And then I just started working with my colleague at the time, Ben, who was also doing a traineeship at the radio station, like me, who is a photographer, who also has big photography channels in Germany, actually, Jaworskyj is his name, with whom I then built up the YouTube channel. At the radio station. And together we shot, I don't know, 500 videos or something like that. Some things were successful, some were not so successful. We started very, very early, the Youtube channel now has, I think, just under 400,000 subscribers or so from the station, then we also started Facebook together. Then Instagram came along at some point, I went behind the scenes, then became head of editorial at some point and specialized in such topics. And then at some point I just thought, "Hey, phh, I want to do a little bit more!" I also want to apply my knowledge." I don't know what it's like for you, but if you know how something works, then you can transfer that to a wide variety of topics and, radio, I've been through that or I've been through that at the station. I'm still working there as an independent, because it's really divine, because, the best colleagues there, best options, possibilities, whatever.
SEBASTIAN: Best Instagram Stories. #00:10:42#
DANIEL:Yes, ey, best Nora Neise, best everything, so! Really, they're great people there. I don't want to miss that either, we can talk about it again later, what it all brings me. And then I said, "Okay, I'm going to start my own business." And of course I already had a few contacts via the radio and wanted to advise and speak, and I spoke for the first time, I think, at Republica, at the Media Convention, where the first people celebrated me a bit. There were also talks where no one celebrated me, so with me it's always so up and down, I'm very, very, how should I say, driven by emotions and if I notice that something is crooked in the audience, is wrong, then it goes over very, very quickly and, yes, you can say, "Dan, you have to be professional and just go through with it." But I'm like, "Yeah, I know I should be professional." But I make a conscious decision in that moment for me to just shit on professionalism and say, I'm going to let that out. No, I let out what I am. Because I don't want to pretend. And professionalism or not, for me-. I want to be professional towards myself and for myself and my head is professional towards me. Also try in every moment not to be stupid and do stupid things that harm myself, but to be myself as much as possible and that's why there are definitely moments when it doesn't work out. In any case, that's where I spoke for the first time, at the Media Convention, and then I wanted to give workshops. Also for Instagram. And I didn't know how that would work. You know the story. I just googled so Instagram workshop, how do you build something like that? Yes. What's the content there? Because I just-. Because, I didn't know. I started from scratch. And then, after googling for half an hour, I noticed that no matter what I googled about the thing, there was always a workshop provider on the first page, and something on the second page, and something on the third page. And then I noticed that: Yeah, fuck dude! Nobody looks at page two. You have to get to page one somehow. And then I thought to myself: Yeah, why don't you just write to those who are on page one, at number one, and not even ask whether they have the option of working with you? Whether they would like to work with you. And I had nothing in my hand at that point, nothing yet!
NIELS:When was that?
DANIEL:That was three years ago, exactly, actually. In July, August, three years ago like that. And I just wrote to them and said, "Hey, I'd like to give an Instagram workshop, do you maybe have the option that I can do that?" And then maybe I was a bit lucky, because the colleague who held the Instagram workshop there, André, said he had so much to do with SEO workshops etc. and would also like to give this workshop and then we are once again at a point where things happen that you didn't know before. So, you didn't know that before, he's a huge photography fan, right? And at that time, as I told you before, I did YouTube with my buddy Benjamin Jaworskyj. And Ben had already started his own business, two years or three years before me and had a Youtube channel and also already gave workshops. And the person who gave the Instagram workshops, André, watched Ben's videos and was also at one of Ben's workshops. And I was in Ben's videos from time to time and as a model in quotation marks for his books just there. As a motif. And he said to me, "Hey, I know you anyway, you're sometimes in Ben's videos and you've also done YouTube with him." And so. And then he said to me: "Hey Dan, you know what? We can try this out. You hold a test workshop, I'll be there and if it's cool, then we'll see if we continue to work together. Then I held a test workshop on that day, he was there, then he said: "Hey, not so many swear words." The typical Dan problem. "But otherwise, in terms of content, it was cool, so let's do it. "#00:14:34#
SEBASTIAN:Was that the André Goldmann, right? #00:14:34#
DANIEL:Exactly! André Goldmann. He now does SEO and has also set up his own business. I don't know, I haven't had anything to do with him since then, we've met exactly once in our lives, for the preliminary talk, met once in our lives for the workshop. I hope Andre is doing well. Because he has really created such a, how shall I say, yes, such a basis for me. So thank you Andre, no matter what you are doing right now. And then, the second point for me was: Okay, how do I continue to create visibility? Because, as sad as it is, it's not always the best who wins, it's also the one who is visible who wins. Yes. That's just the way it is. In the best case you are visible and you can bake it with proper Nollec, bake it with proper Nollec, how does the idiot speak? Hopefully people will find you and you can do something, right? Period. And then with me it was like: Okay, what do I do? I kind of have to dominate on Google even more and all my competition is just doing blogs. So, they're writing. I can't write that well, I don't enjoy it, I realize when I write longer I start to enjoy it, but it's not native for me. It doesn't feel cool when I write. And what has always felt good for me was to make videos and then I started the Yotube channel three years ago and simply made videos of what others write about others. Because Youtube likes-. So, Google likes Youtube and if I can at least dominate the videos there and the preview or the search terms of the-. What's it called? The search results of the videos, can place me there, then I do that and accordingly I have then just started to make Youtube videos and, yes, it has also worked quite well for me.
DANIEL:Even if it sometimes looks like this from the outside: Yes, Dan, but there are sometimes few clicks, there are sometimes few clicks, fuck it! So if it also interests you, many people criticize that also with me. That they say: "Hey, why are you doing in Youtube? You're not reaching the decision makers there!" And they're probably right to a certain extent, but it's always the question, on what basis does the decision-maker make his decisions? And that is, most of the time the boss comes and he wants an Instagram workshop and then he asks his employees who maybe do Instagram or have some idea who you could take there. And I think every second employee who has had to deal with Instagram at some point has seen a video of mine. And in that case, they'll vote for me. Because if they've seen a video of me where I've helped them, where they've kind of had a little app problem, watched my video, had a positive experience because it worked, then they're going to suggest me. And besides, people also make sure of that with their clicks. Because they're always like, "Yeah, but what's the point if kids are clicking your shitty videos?" I say: "Hey, if the kids click on my crappy videos, yes, then they make sure that the videos are ranked super well, on YouTube and also on Google, with all the clicks, bli blup blup. And if someone comes and searches for the topic, and maybe it's not a 13-year-old who just wants to stalk someone else on Instagram, then it's very likely that because of the clicks from the little bums there, that he'll also come across me, right? That I'll be displayed there. And so that's the tactic. And yes, that's how I started, first making radio, then behind the scenes. Gathered experience, went into business for myself, like everyone else. I didn't know what I was doing and just googled and then asked. Quite normal. Couldn't have come up with anything. I also always ask myself how it would have gone if it hadn't happened. What would I do now? But then I would have done it somehow differently. Then I would have those who stood on two on Google always, I would have written to them. And would have made for the workshops. So also thank you at this point again to the 121 Watt for the trust the last years. Yes really. So they have done very, very much for me as well. So if you work together with a renowned workshop provider, who also has big customers, you can build up something very, very quickly. That accelerated the whole thing for me very, very much. I mean, that's certainly the case with you, too, with a few small moves that made the whole thing... Which were then just important. #00:18:37#
SEBASTIAN:Well, totally. Absolutely. So, straight is always, I can just ... #00:18:43# was just so with me catalyst. Through him I have just, that was just so from-. When I was still employed, that you just get to such a level, where you think, okay, that-. Now it becomes a bit-. So you lose the relationship to these classic jobs and so on. Was with Niels, I think, a little bit, when we started to work together, you know, at Ebay. #00:19:07#
NIELS:Right.
DANIEL: What was there? #00:19:11#
NIELS:Definitely changed quite quickly, the perspective. #00:19:15#
DANIEL: Do you think now-. Which perspective has changed? The perspective that you just flush 100,000 euros into the store for which you worked and only get 2,000 for it yourself? Or which perspective has changed? #00:19:23#
NIELS:Yes, both and, I would say. So it's not just the money, it's also simply this: Wow, hey, I'm doing something independently and I can determine my hourly salary according to my performance. I can divide my time freely, I'm simply self-determined and decide a little bit. #00:19:37#
SEBASTIAN:Or, as it is with Dan? Or-. #00:19:45#
DANIEL: Niels is currently on the road in a village somewhere where he has such poor reception. I'm moving there soon too. #00:19:52#
NIELS:... that's right and then I hope that no one will talk to me. But in that case.... #00:19:56#
DANIEL: That was exactly the moment you were addressed. #00:19:58#
NIELS:I would like to argue that I could have said, "Okay, we flushed two million in here for you and he only gets paid two thousand." But that was definitely not the case in the employment relationship, Savecall didn't, but still-. The relationship to an hourly wage and also so a little bit to, just ....work efficiency, so what do you produce in the time that you're working? And, it's definitely been something completely different after we started working together even just a few months. #00:20:30#
DANIEL: It's going really well for you guys, too, isn't it? Well, I mean, from what I hear, business is good! #00:20:37#
NIELS:Can't complain. J
SEBASTIAN:No, I think there are much slower and more difficult approaches. I mean, we also have many claims in the startup area. Hey, the challenges you have there and a product that is somehow also in the food sector, you're really fighting for a long, long time. And with us it was just, I mean, we had already the Kickstart then I have built up by Niels just also again the whole competence area and at some point we had just reference that it ran just well and then-. #00:21:04#
NIELS:Yeah, the thing is, you also have to add, we just have absolutely no life(laughs). #00:21:13#
DANIEL: So honestly, are you right, so working away all the time? Is it a lot? #00:21:20#
NIELS:I think it is. I mean, it's-. It should not be a Complaint now, we do not want to complain, but we do just not really something else, but work just permanently actually to improvise this game and therefore, it would be really lousy if it would not go forward. #00:21:40#
DANIEL: Yeah, yeah, sure. You, I mean, especially also, I mean, although you have such a workload apparently, then also to start and to say: "Okay, watch out, we now also make content ourselves." In order to get even more customers in the end and so, that's also, in itself it's smart, because otherwise the business doesn't continue to run and as long as it runs, you just have to make awesome stuff. But many would now sit back and say: "Come on, the little bit of time I have, I'd rather use that now to chill!" And you still make awesome content. #00:22:03#
SEBASTIAN:That was with Dan Alter. No really, it was really like that because, the next question, it fits there a little bit too. That's so this topic, why is this content, especially horny content, so important? Because, you also always told me Dan, make content. Because I just unfortunately thought to myself: Yes, okay, would be quite cool. But when do I have the time for it? Well.... #00:22:25#
DANIEL: Just like today, on Sunday morning! Do you know what I mean? (SEBASTIAN: Yes. It's really like that.) You just have to take it. But you know what-. #00:22:33#
SEBASTIAN:Yes. And it's also just awesome, so I mean. #00:22:33#
DANIEL: It's also overimportant that way. You know what, you are already-. Of course, you are now competing with many, many young people who are also doing something like this. They have also realized: You have to make content! I believe that five years ago, when old school agencies were really doing this, you could have shaved so much more quickly. Because now, of course, you're competing with a lot of young people who are also doing something like that. But to get away from this typical-. Agencies have previously only, so I do not know, I see you just as guys who just do cool work for companies. #00:23:09#
SEBASTIAN:We are not. Not a classic agency. #00:23:10#
DANIEL: They have always-. They never managed to market themselves. I don't think they needed it or anything, I don't know. But nowadays I think you have to market yourself as an agency. And for me, there's more to it than just one image video a year, where you fly in the logos of your clients and a few numbers like that. I think that's what you're doing. And whether it works or not, I don't know, I don't see behind the scenes how it works for you-.... #00:23:34#
SEBASTIAN:It already worked! So, I already got clients through it. #00:23:38#
DANIEL: Exactly. So you say: You have already made conversions. And I find that-. I just think it's cool that someone is doing that and it's so nice. That so many are still not doing it. #00:24:30#
SEBASTIAN:What would you say, why, so content alone is also always so: We do content marketing, which is also mostly rather bullshit than that it is meaningful content. So produce content, especially in the SEO area, it is of course still a lot of text, but why, would you say it is then also so important for larger companies? Because, I think, they find it massively difficult. Because you have much more insight into it, because I'm more in advertising. But I mean, there alone I can see that there is hardly any content. #00:24:12#
DANIEL: Yeah, so I don't know that the-. It's just very, very cumbersome. These are big tankers, and when I'm consulting with the big companies, I always tell them: "Friends, I know that many of the things we're discussing today you may not be able to do. I also come from the Bertelsmann Group, but with them-. I don't know what the reason is. Honestly, it's maybe just, you've moved so far away, also so maybe from the core business. The people who could really do it, maybe they don't want to do it anymore because they are at the top. The student trainee who actually makes the apps at the end is not predestined to make the podcast for the company. Otherwise it would still be noticeable to the outside world that the student worker is doing the work, yes? Which in itself wouldn't matter at all, because if the work is good, the crappy work is good, and then I don't care who does it. I don't know, probably way too many companies are afraid of being too transparent maybe. That something goes wrong, that some employee says something, that you're vulnerable outside. You wouldn't believe it, I was on the road at a company and they said they had already thought about it: What if we post something and other people write something negative about a brand underneath a product that we have? So imagine you have a publishing house, you do tests and so on, and there is test product A, product B. And both of them are customers of yours. And both are customers of yours and you do tests, but you don't say: "This is better and this is not better! But you make a stop. So you say it, but you test it. And if then underneath someone says: "Yes, but model A is really dirty, this company, they are Nazis, blah blah blah!" And then they were all about, "Yeah, what if our customer sees that then?" Yeah, then I say, "Yeah well, I mean, you can't change the world anyway! So, this person who hates this brand can say that anywhere. Whether he says it underneath you or not. Actually, the customer should be happy that someone is even dealing with it, and maybe they should think, "Why is that person saying that and talking so bad about it?" But that's the kind of thing they worry about, that they might end up losing an advertiser. Because they make something about the customer, which is then hated by the community or by somebody. But I also say that the problem lies with the customer. Because the customer thinks he can apparently still control all his communication outside and make sure that-. Yes, well, I'll tell you something! But he can't, you know what I mean? And he can too, you can't block anyone away or anything else. People come back and they hate and you have to understand that. And that's exactly the kind of thing that you do, that's what I told them, "You know, you can't control how the communication about your product is out there. It's hard to control that." So, if somebody wants to hate, they have. There are certainly ways to do that. Not in a blanket way. But, what you can do is maybe create a balance by having your own content, by talking about yourselves, by showing what you can do and again, maybe giving a different image. And, you know, that could then also, if anyone has about you out there, it's important that you, and by that I don't mean as a counterbalance put your image video where you pretend to be environmentally friendly and whatever. But if you create content all the time, you know, like you. Where it becomes more transparent. Then people can just get a more general picture of it or a more comprehensive picture of it. And you don't have to be afraid of it being hated. Because you have the power to put out content. There was, I don't think, a question now on your answer, but it was still pretty damn smart what I told. Accordingly, so-. #00:27:19#
SEBASTIAN:Yes, wonderful. #00:27:22#
DANIEL: That again a Twitter moment, so. #00:27:25#
SEBASTIAN:Let's pick that up right now. I mean, everybody-. Well, a lot of people talk about it: more content, more content, content is important. And when you go to social media, you inevitably see things that you could somehow interpret as content or not. Because a lot of it somehow feels like it's not content. You deal so much with the topic, give us a little bit like that: What is currently hot content? So, what is good content? What do you focus on, what do you recommend to people? #00:27:51#
DANIEL: So generally, I think in terms of content, it's rather interesting, the following: The content I would-. I wouldn't stray too much from my core topic always. You know, I always see a big problem with people in that, they have a cool product and then they always think: What can we do on the Internet now? And then they always want to do something completely different. You know, let's put it this way: you have-. You two, for example, your product, you sell performance marketing. You do everything right, because you take your performance marketing, your product, and then you make content for it. You talk about it, so, whatever. But you could also sit down and you could say, "Yo, check this out, we're actually doing performance marketing, but we're not reaching that many people with that. Besides, I've heard you have to be cool on Instagram. Come on, we're going to make cool blogs about how we do that and how we go skiing." That's also kind of the content that I'm putting out as well. To show personality and stuff. And also, it's also cool to see you guys working out, the Sebastian and stuff, but-. You know what I mean? Way too many people think to themselves, "I have to invent something extra now that's cool, so that I can now what-." You know, at the company where I was the other day, this week, you can't comprehend that either in terms of time, it was just also like, "Yeah, and on Instagram, you have to be cool and casual." Like that. And that's in their head and now they think they have to make a cool and casual content. And I don't think that at all. I think if you're not cool and casual, but you have a cool-. So, if you have customers, then it means you have content and a product that sells. That means it has to be able to do something. Take your crappy product and don't start being cool and casual, but think: What can I do with my product and how can I play it out so that it's as platform optimized as possible? Like this. You know what I mean? And then it's more about saying, "Okay, what should I maybe do on Instagram, maybe I don't do such a long video. Or a long content like that, I'll do that for a podcast." But those are more the things where you should think about it. And the most important thing is: Dicker, talk about what you do, not from your own point of view, but already with added value for other people, yes? So now do not misunderstand that you only talk about your product and about yourself. But the topic, what you play and what you stand for, that you should cover extensively. And you can make it informative, entertaining, or whatever, but you should stick to your core topic. And if your core topic is online marketing, then stick to it and don't start building up something about CrossFit on the side. You do that as fun and other things. That is also okay. And there is also a certain image and maybe you also find some people about CrossFit, which then book something else with you. Do not misunderstand. Far too many think also always so one-sided or so, but the most important thing is, do not distance yourself for the time being. Think first: What can you do with what you really do? And not, "Oh we have to when we're on Insta-." You know? People are so pissed off at companies because they think, "If I'm on Instagram, I have to hold a product up to the camera and put some kind of beauty filter on it and now I have to become a beauty blogger. That's what they think. And then they're like, no that's what we're for, it's not us. I say, "Yeah, you don't have to be!" There is also other content, there are people who photograph fucking microbes, right? Through some fucking microscope they photograph bacteria and they're followed by 60,000 people, the account. Or 70,000. I'm like, "What's wrong with you? Don't be afraid for the time being and don't think about it now, what do you have to do so that people like you? Why don't you just do what you have for now and see if maybe that finds people who like that." Yes? #00:31:09#
SEBASTIAN:Exactly. Yes, one hundred percent, so I can also sign off on the fact that at-. Especially in this area, people are too focused on the superficial numbers of followers and so on and likes and views, which are actually our niche in online marketing. So I mean, how many people are really deep in there now? I mean, there's 20,000 people at an OER festival or 30,000, but it probably won't be more than that. #00:31:33#
DANIEL:I think already over 50,000 were even this year! #00:31:36#
SEBASTIAN:No idea, but to get more than 100,000 followers in the online marketing area is probably not so realistic in Germany now anyway. Why even so big ...#00:31:44# if you don't just say: "Hey, if I have a client who now, I don't know, buttert out 5000 euros a day advertising budget, then I've landed a fat customer and then I can already put down again the next few months a mega growth.
DANIEL:Yes, just!
SEBASTIANAnd that is the thinking that you should have. I mean, Sedat from GEILEWEINE, he helps us out a little bit and he also tells us a little bit of something like that. I also always think to myself, so this whole thinking about why am I doing the content now and so, man, either you're up for it dude, otherwise you won't pull it through anyway. If it's always such a compulsion, like, you know what I mean? That was with me with the podcast that I did with Jos: Man, we would have had to force ourselves to continue, because we both then somehow-. It just wasn't necessarily our format. So the two of us, it wasn't about us, it was simply about the format. And that just-. And that's why, if someone has to think so hard about it alone, he's already lost, dude. Look for people, get people into your company, who are into it, who like to do it, for whom it's normal and for whom it's part of it. So this whole still thinking about it: Do we have to take place on the platforms now? Fatty, you don't have to do anything. And I also don't give a shit and have to do any content now, yes, Fatty! If you have Bock on it! If not, is me but also latte! And always this big. I don't know why people even think about it. I think, if you're up for it, do it. If not, then don't. I don't care. #00:33:03#
SEBASTIAN:Yes, man. #00:33:07#
DANIEL:I don't even fight there anymore. I don't even fight with the customers anymore and besides that. Because that's not my problem. I do it because, for me, it's just stop. That's just the way I do it: And it's probably the same with you guys. I mean, Niels has already made an Instagram account before he probably marketed Instagram. Or just marketed Instagram or offered it. It's just in the blood and in the DNA. And I think it's difficult to somehow get people to do that. To break it into people's heads, to do that, that also seems strange, so. Everything is still changing anyway. #00:33:45#
SEBASTIAN:What would you say Dan, where is it going for you in the future? Are you going to continue to be the Instagram Guy or are you going to be the-. So Motivational Speaker, we've talked about that before. Where do you want to go? #00:33:58#
DANIEL:The two of us, we often talk like this, and I would like to move away from the topic a bit. Not because I don't celebrate Instagram or anything, I do. And I also enjoy the workshops and I also enjoy the topic, but I also have to develop further and that means for me that I also want to develop a bit away from the narrow topic of Instagram. So more towards communication topics, I don't know, sparring and with business managers and so on. I'm up for that. Because I think, yeah, I have, you know, I have a feeling out there that it's going to be-. You know what's very-, very worst? I started doing this a year ago and Garry) fucking Vaynerchuck is going on this fucking radical candor thing all the time now and you're going on chief personalities now too and you want to change something there. I hate that. Because I get told again, "Fatty you're just copying Garry Vee." No, I had that claim myself, having been in so many companies now, I think the saying: The fish stinks from the head,is often right! Yes? And I'm up for working with managers, giving them honest feedback, honestly giving my opinion. Even if I don't know my way around every area, if there's one thing I know my way around, as silly as it sounds, it's people management. Getting employees to do what you want them to do. Even if you have to-. Negatively, you could also say manipulation. Or anything else.
DANIEL:But what I manage to do is to carry people along, and that's something that very, very many business leaders lack these days. Because the problem is, look: But that's the problem of the managing director, isn't it? At that point. He actually wants to be on the platforms, but doesn't want to spend any money on it and doesn't want to make any resources available. In other words, his biggest problem is somehow motivating the employees to do it. Yes? Actually, it's his problem. Because if the bosses don't want to spend money on it, or more time, or anything else, then they can't expect it to work. But they want it to! And then they just lack this: How can I get my people involved? How can I explain it to them so that they get something out of it? And I can do that very, very well and I want to go in that direction. Especially because Instagram sometimes just hardcore fucks my life, because they just again half an hour before I do the workshop, yes, again briefly make an update and I then sit there and my workshop participants of course expect that they get the latest of the latest. Which doesn't necessarily always have relevance, right? Just because shopping came out half an hour ago, no sow can use it yet, no sow in Germany could use it yet, but of course that has to be on my slides. Because, otherwise the first participant comes, who has just read some headline and says-. Or just on Instagram says, "Where is shopping actually? Are we still talking about that today? I say: "Fatty, it was just put out today, what do we want to talk about it now? There's not much to- yet." Yes, but then the workshop is not up to date, right? You know what I mean. And I also don't want to let myself be determined any more, my speed, also no longer so foreign. That's a very important point. And Instagram just helps determine what my content is. What all, you know what I mean? And also the speed. If something happens there, I have to react and I don't necessarily want that. Yes? And when it goes to higher meta topics, you don't have to react anymore. But Instagram, you know it yourself, is for me still and was for me also the most important lever to say, to reach people at all about it and also to get gigs and everything. Because that's just a topic, like that. But little by little I want to develop away from it.
NIELS:Sure.
DANIEL:Big goal, 300 DAX board members who insult the Dan 10,000 euros, for 30 minutes! And honestly, if any of the bosses here should listen to the podcast, it's worth chatting with me. I give very, very honest feedback and I have another view on things. And it's that kind of operational blindness that often makes people bring in a big consulting firm. And hey, I'm cheaper than the big consulting companies, I also just come alone, don't come in a suit, right? And it's honestly spoken. #00:38:02#
SEBASTIAN:I think that's a good Word. Very good. #00:38:03#
DANIEL: Yeah, I hope I didn't talk you guys up too much. Thanks for the platform dude, was content marketing you know for me. #00:38:12#
SEBASTIAN:Thank you for your content, it was extremely entertaining but also just out Bold info content and tips. Thanks. #00:38:22#
DANIEL: Thank you for doing something, friends of the sun! Honestly, I always do not understand it, the whole-. Ah! Thank you that you do something and that you have fun and that you go through with it! That makes me a thousand times happier when someone does something like that. And also, I have witnessed Sebastian's way: Always made the right moves, even you have certainly fallen on your face in the meantime and have also had to struggle a time or two in your business and still do in some places. And as I said: "Ey, celebrate it!" And when I look at you two, man, how old are you, Niels?
NIELS:23.
SEBASTIAN:You are 23, Sebastian 22, so ey, sick. Guys, at my age-. I wish you, you don't have to work at my age anymore! Yes? And you will manage that. #00:39:03#
NIELS:Maybe from Niels even then, we'll see. #00:39:06#
SEBASTIAN:You're having fun with it hard! #00:39:06#
DANIEL: So work-. #00:39:08#
SEBASTIAN:We'll let that come to us. #00:39:07#
DANIEL: Exactly! But as I said, I think it's crass, what, I don't know, you're still-. At that age, as I said, I sold carpets at Ikea so, that's all I did. So. And that's why, I think it's sick what you're already doing there and so. Respect in any case. #00:39:23#
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