Episode 18: Work-Life Balance = Bullshit?

Sebastian: You're also fed up with scammy online marketing gurus who promise you superficial half-strategies as a path to success.

Niels: As self-employed online marketers who call the daily grind their absolute comfort zone. We have made it our mission to uncover the online marketing bullshit. We give you the unfiltered truth about the current state of the online marketing world and which strategies really work.

Sebastian: Your hosts, Niels Stuck and Sebastian Vogg, present new online marketing topics in each episode, such as SEO, Facebook Das, content and much more, to take your online marketing success to the next level.

Sebastian: Good and welcome to the NO BS Marketing Podcast. Hi, Niels.

Niels: Good, once again. Hello, hello.

Sebastian: Hello again in the tag team. Just the two of us, today it's about work-life balance. Uh damn. And how we deal with it in our lives. Because the last episode where we also talked a bit more personally about our stuff. That went down well with you, we noticed. The topic of self-employment is proving to be cool anyway, including the questions about it. And now just a little bit. About our daily routine, or simply how we structure our work. Just to look at it a bit here. What we have learned. What works for us and what doesn't work, and what's good and what's bad. Yes Niels, how, what, how do you ensure you have a good work-life balance?

Niels: So I think that's also become such a (?bass word), anyway. What does work-life balance mean? When is what too much and, above all, what does it actually matter if it becomes too much. Because I have to say, I'm not really stressed by the work itself. That's why I don't have the feeling that I need a balance.

But other factors, if I have a lot of appointments, that's stressful for me. For example, if I have two appointments every day, it stresses me out for two or three hours beforehand. Because it's unpleasant for me. After a day full of calls or appointments, I really need to rest and take a break in the evening and I find that exhausting. (Sebastian: Yes) How is it, what stresses you out the most? What throws you off balance?

Sebastian: Yes, it's similar in any case. So I know, I can clearly say that with Calls, of course, it's the same, you can also go into it later, like I did, that it's a bit condense. So Call. Yes, so that's one topic and what's always a bit stressful for me is the topic of travel. So (Sebastian: Yes) traveling abroad (Sebastian: Sure) right now, now it's the end of September, now it's all Facebook conference again. And you're on the road for several days and I find it a bit stressful to combine it with work, because you don't really have a down point where you can work on your rest. So I notice that some people do that a lot. Often speakers and so on, you're on the train and often dependent on the internet. It's all a bit stressful.

Niels: It's the travel aspect itself. And I'd say that you can't work super effectively is more of a stressor for you or that you're so out of your habits and your usual zone.

Sebastian: It's more that I might miss the train. (Niels:Yes, okay) This, this, okay shit, this fucking train needs again. Twenty minutes late. (Niels: Yes, yes, yes) I don't make my connecting train in Mannheim. Well, I still have to say something about efficiency. Especially when it comes to Umslides or offline work. Of course, travel is great because you have no other option to do anything else.(Sebastian:Yes) Then you have this advantage and that can also bring something. But apart from that, normal work isn't necessarily stressful for me either.

So of course there are various tasks that fall into place. Of course, I mean, after I've been traveling or we've been to pure wines in Mainz, you need a little day off from time to time, more, a bit of rest. That's why I always try to do something at the weekend. Sunday is always work for me too, but I try to keep Monday relatively free, to make it a bit more relaxed. So that I can easily drop into the week.

Niels: Yes okay, for me it's always the Sunday evening (Sebastian:Yes) that I don't want my DMs filled with certain messages. Unfortunately, that doesn't work so well either. Wink, wink. (Sebastian: Yes, I know, it's my fault) But in the end, it works. But to talk about the balance, I think sport is quite important for me. I don't have the feeling that I need it as a balance, but I always notice afterwards that I'm significantly happier. That it definitely gives me something. To somehow go to the gym after a long day and maybe have to switch off, because (Sebastian: Yes) then you don't really have work on your mind so much. Especially if you're training with someone else, you replicate that. Good if I go training alone. I still have WhatsApp open and write there and somehow work through memos or messages. I can't really switch off completely. But when I go training with Jonas or someone else, for example, it's different.

Sebastian: Yes, well, I mean I'm always here. I have my (?home) here. My cousin visits me pretty much all the time and that's also a chilled out story. It's a good way to wind down and not be so far away. I mean, there are always days when it's not so easy to get out of your head. But that always brings me something. So that definitely does. What else do I like to do, balance, music is a big part of me, so I do, I have a thing for guitar, but I started singing lessons six months ago.

It's also brought a bit more joy into the thing. And yes, I just do it to compensate. Yes, it's just great, for once I really don't have a goal behind it, you know. (Niels: Yes) So with the, with the gym- (Niels: Okay) with the gym- I'm also currently, it's also a bit of a thing, I don't do it in a very structured way, with the gym. (Niels: Yes) So I would probably have to track a bit more, I mean the calories, I don't really track my weights either. (Niels: No) That also requires a lot of energy, sometimes I think I'd like to get back into it, into a real phase, focused on working out and so on, but that also requires a lot of energy.

Niels: Exactly, it's a bit like that, which (?porpus) do you go with, because I definitely see it as a balance for me. If I now cramp my balance by saying, all right, Go Setting, I want to do the dish next time and write everything down now, I'll track everything. Then you don't turn it into something that somehow gives you energy, I say, but takes even more energy. But I understand you, I think to myself, I actually want to get on with it. And maybe I'm not so happy if the progress isn't there but that's it. (Sebastian: Yes) But more like holding on, and maybe it even goes down a bit. Yes, exactly.

Sebastian: The question is a bit like, what is simple, what is the intention? If we're both in this kind of business now. Mindset work-life balance. I'm primarily concerned with moving my company forward. (Niels: Yes) You never know whether that will still be so important in two, three, four, five, ten years' time. (Niels: Yes, exactly) But yes, so just to finish off your point a bit, I definitely do it as a balance, because social time is also important for me and I've really been doing it for two years or so now. Since I started with the whole hustle, I've dealt with it very, very, very, very (?multimentary) as far as possible. Lately it's become a bit more. Which also gives me something where I realize that you just have that.

Of course, you can do it the way I do it, but you can tell that something is missing somehow. Neither of us are the type to go out a lot or do lots and lots of socializing. I was never the type to do that and I'm just not that turned on by it now. I can honestly say that. I, I enjoy the company from a few people, from a few trusted people like you Niels or my brother or no idea. Yes, okay, then that's the way it is, but I can draw peace of mind or energy from it or something like that.

Niels: And I think that's a very important point right now. Also for the whole topic of work-life balance, what type of person are you? What stresses you out, what gives you energy. If you're an introvert, you might find it easier to stay at home and work all day. Do you need a quick balance in the form of time with friends and lots of people to recharge your batteries? What recharges your battery and what drains your battery, I think that's a very important question.

That's why you can't really lump it all together, you can't really say okay you have to do XYZ to somehow have a work-life balance. No, well, I think you can reflect on yourself quite well and see, okay. What is very stressful for me, what is not at all and what recharges my battery. And you can also see that working on a project or well, if you have something where you get into the flow, that it's not necessarily that exhausting. It's more about a few small aspects. For example, I don't structure myself that much, I keep a few tasks and work items open and then get down to what I feel most like doing. So that I'm always productive when I start something, but have a bit of choice and don't have to do a certain thing by force, which I might then find exhausting. I might feel more like doing them on another day. But for example, as I said, appointments stress me out when things don't work out for people I work with. And then there's another unexpected problem that I have to deal with, which also stresses me out a lot. No Sebastian, I'm not talking about you. Don't worry about it. And there are so many small points and I think everyone can think about them a bit. Where do the stress veins in your life get in the way? For example, do you have any specific points that you notice?

Niels: Yes, emails are always like that for me. (Sebastian: Yes, okay) Emails and (?Slag) and so on. That's all great and good and good communication and I also do a lot via Slag. But sometimes it just falls apart. Then so many messages come in, you answer everything. And you could be working at the same time. Then I usually think to myself, why don't I just do a Slagday. Or a day or a time when I just have Slag open and the rest I have closed. Because that's a bit of self-sabotaging. But I'm just, I have an expectation. I want customers to give me feedback, but I should actually take a step back.

It's the same for me when I'm on the phone, if we haven't arranged a call, then you probably won't get me on the phone either. Most of the time. (Sebastian: Okay) So not if it's an emergency, of course, definitely. But if you just call, for nothing, don't talk to me beforehand and don't even check if you're free. Then I won't go in most cases. It's just, I don't know, it gets me out of the flow. I try to- (Sebastian: It's not bad, I mean) - I can be reached via email, I can be reached via WhatsApp, if people have my number, then they should write to me there. Then the thing is usually done quickly via voicemail. (Sebastian: that's right) I am, yes?

Sebastian: Exactly, because I think the thing is, when you hear it now, you think, like, you don't answer when you call, but normally it's standard. You send an email, you send a message and you actually get an answer within 24 or 48 hours. (Niels: Yes, yes) And with you it is, even if you say that now. Fucking significantly faster, in a few hours if it takes that long at all. That's actually always instant feedback. So it's still at a very high standard. That's why.

Niels: In any case. And that's one of the things that sometimes throws me off kilter. Why me, which takes a lot of energy. Sometimes I feel really wasted afterwards. When I've communicated so much and have so many different votes, it takes a bit of energy. That's how I do it now, ideally I try to limit calls to twice a week. Let's call it customer calls or acquisition calls or perhaps calls with freelancers, I try to limit that to two days. Usually Tuesday, Wednesday or Tuesday, Thursday. (Sebastian: Okay) Something like that. And then sometimes I just have. It starts on Tuesday and then ends at 4pm or something. That's really tough. (Sebastian: A lot) So that's very pure. Sometimes I've had days when you were there too, Niels, when I had a call until 8:00 pm. (Sebastian: Yes, yes) Well, two calls in the evening, because people can only do it in the evening. So now I don't like doing it in the evening because-

Sebastian: There's a certain person from Mainz, who I think has a lot to do with crying, who likes to call at 00:00, (Niels:laughs) via video call on WhatsApp, greetings go out at this point Sedat. (Niels: Yes, yes) But I think when I think about it now, because I haven't done it that way yet. But I think that would be better, because I don't know if you can feel it, but when you have appointments, calls that go well, you get into flow. Because then, because normally I'm always, no matter what appointment, I'm annoyed two hours beforehand. Safe, I don't feel like it. But once I'm in, if it goes well, if it goes well, which is usually the case, it usually goes well. I'm happy afterwards and think to myself, yes Digger, now I'm ready, next one please. And then you can really pull it off once and then you're in that mode, let's say, on that day. And I think I should try that too. Good tip at this point.

Niels: Yes, well, the most important thing is that you also take something from the calls, not just make the calls, that's useless. Because a lot of information (Sebastian: Yes, yes, yes). That means somehow logging or writing, taking notes (Sebastian: Yes, yes, yes) sounds like something. But apart from that, yes of course, I think you can structure yourself a bit like that. Then I also try to have days where I don't have anything on the agenda. And I'm also the kind of person who is like, I have my list of things I want to do, but I do it the other way around Niels, I always do the things I least want to do. (Sebastian: Okay, yes) Because I always think to myself, if I put it off, I won't want to do it tomorrow either. (Sebastian: Of course, of course) So that's how I do it, at least I try to do it first if I have something urgent that I have to finish today.

Sebastian: Sure, if it's urgent anyway, but I'll say for non-urgent tasks: (Niels: Yes) Things like, okay, I've got this month, I've got time this month to do task XY. And then I don't have to, I don't have to say now, I don't have to do it urgently, I can do it in a week. I'll do it today, even though I don't fucking feel like it. Actually, I totally agree with you. I always notice it, for example, when I have emails, things that fall outside my planning or paperwork. Paperwork is the worst thing for me. I've got an email open with my tax advisor. I'm supposed to look for things again, send them again. Man, I'll- (Niels: Yes) -I put it off for so long that I think, all right, if I wait another day then I'll get a call and it'll be unpleasant.

Because then I was the idiot who took so long again. Yes, today I have to, like this. Things like that always annoy me. I have a few, paperwork is such a great thing. So there, I try to do that, I always put it off for a long time. But then when I do it, or when I say, fuck it. Okay, now I'm doing all the annoying things. Today, this morning. Then afterwards I think to myself, lucky you did all that fucking stuff. It feels good not to have these annoying tasks in the back of your mind all the time. Every day and I think about it all the time. (Niels: Yes, of course) And I actually try to program it into my mind. Man, it feels really good every time you tick off the annoying things (?first). Do it next time boy. So, (Niels: Yes, yes) I'm slowly getting better at it, but it's slow.

Niels: Yes, for me it's also paperwork, for example. I mean, I'm not really into bookkeeping and stuff like that. So I think it's okay, because- But invoices are always with me too. (Sebastian: Yes) It's exhausting, if you send out, I don't know, 40 to 50 invoices a month, then it gets tough. And (Sebastian: Yes) that's also a topic where I always think, yes, afterwards you always feel really cool. Especially because you see the money, of course. But, yes, when it comes to e-mails, I've also decided to answer them straight away. So as quickly as possible, as quickly as possible. (Sebastian: Yes) And not always, so la- so if I'm always waiting, seeing unread emails again, thanks I think. (Sebastian: Yes, exactly. My forehead pulsates). Shit, please get rid of it. Yes, and once the emails have all been read, then you think to yourself again, tasty.

Sebastian: Yes, I've got a nineteen there. You have-

Niels: Wait I look, what have I just got? I have nine, yes that works. Seven, seven, seven. (Sebastian: So) Seven, my business email, but most of it is stuff that came in ages ago. Which I could have simply deleted a long time ago or written, yes, that's probably done now. (Sebastian: Yes) But, yes, that's always cool. You should just keep an objective eye on your inbox. And let's see, okay, which of these emails in here is really relevant to me at the moment. No, me, just one email, just one. (Sebastian: Yes) One single one, (Sebastian: Yes) nothing else. I'm a tough victim of that too. Well, otherwise, what else can you say.

Sebastian: Let's talk a bit more about flow at work. Because I think it's kind of the key, I think, to many things. In order to not be really stressed by your work. I mean, first of all, you have to do at least some, maybe a lot, of the work that interests you and is fun. For many things, I think that's the basis. And I've now realized for myself that it's always a bit cyclical. If I do a lot of client work, then at some point I get a bit fucked up and think to myself that I would much rather produce content. So that's what I did last month, for example. I wrote two or three utopian blog posts of six or seven thousand words each. And somehow took myself apart with tools.

And I really had a lot of fun with a seven thousand word post. Because I thought, yeah, cool man. Even more content and I really wanted to balance it out. I was also keen to write my bachelor's thesis at first. But then that, the little ones again. And by the third post, I thought to myself again, okay, I don't feel like it anymore. I want to do something else now. Sometimes it's okay, I somehow have a new project idea or maybe a new client with a new project, and I'm totally into it. And I think that's just the law of the sinking plummet.

The longer you do a task, the less fun you have with it. That's why, as I mentioned a little earlier, the key for me is that I have the choice between several tasks. To which I can now devote my time and energy. And then I can always, always remember, okay, I have deadlines that I'm going to meet anyway, so that's not the point now. It's like everything gets done on time. But that I use the time I have in such a way that I have the most fun with the work. And I think that's what I'm doing right now. Because I have a lot of people about you and also some people in general (?Plions) for whom I'm doing various tasks. And until next week, for example, I have five different things open. And I was able to work through them this week in such a way that I was incredibly productive. Because when I was doing it, I was pretty much in the flow. Yes, but I don't feel stressed either, even though it's Saturday 2 p.m. here and I haven't actually done anything else this week except work until ten every day. But it wasn`t a problem. So, how do you feel about that?

NielsYes, so I have, I think a little bit through, through the diversity in advertising, I have the possibility. I can switch to any account. I can do accounts, I can make cool wines, then I can do whatever. And always switched through. That means I have a good variety there alone. (Sebastian: Yes) I am now, we already have, I can't tell you how many running accounts we have. But there are definitely a lot. (Sebastian: Yes). So that's a change that I think is pretty nice and that gives me a bit more spice in my work when my brain is kind of full. But of course there are also things that are more fun in the meantime. An audit, for example. An audit is one of the (Sebastian: Yes, yes, yes) nicest things you can do. It just requires a few hours of concerted attention without emails, without an open add account.

Just this audit and the analysis of it, and that can take ten hours or fifteen hours if you're always working on it for a long time. And these are things that I think, especially if you've done something like this for a long time, you have to keep it that way for the customer. If you've found something that really brings a lot (Sebastian: Yes, yes) then it's a really great feeling, it's really fun. And that's why I always find it great to have a few audits a month. I don't know, three to four, then it's really cool and then I always have one on top of my normal workload, which I usually have to squeeze in at the weekend, an audit like that, which I usually do on Sundays or something, or Saturdays. And then I can simply focus on working on this topic. It's definitely a lot of fun and makes me think about it a bit. About my current accounts. And so I switch it up a bit. But I mean, I still have my setups, that's just initial work, that's something that sometimes involves more effort, but at the same time I'm creating something, the other thing is monitoring. (Sebastian: Yes) And with and the OptimizationIn between, I just switch between the different tasks from time to time. That's just the way it is for me. Exactly.

Sebastian: I can, in any case very well (?relaiten). Also with the audit, when you say, okay (Niels: Yes), you've commissioned me now, so I'm going to find all the mistakes and God, damn, I'm going to do that. I always find that very exciting. Yes, man.

NielsYes, it is. That's about work-life balance. Everything else about it, I mean giving up your social life, yes, you don't have to do that, but it definitely gives you more time. And if you haven't always been a party person anyway, then the work that we do is of course very beneficial. Because we don't have to, we don't need this drastic change right now. But one more thing I wanted to (?add), because you said before to recharge the batteries. (Sebastian: Yes). Sometimes it's not so bad to change your batteries again, so in the sense of what I mean by that now. If we are crass order people, we are crass people who love our habits. Who are very, very into our habits, not in a negative sense, but simply. We are just (?ritual) like everyone else, but we have our home office. We do our daily grind and it's mega productive, but it just brings us to a point somewhere. (?Heddser) once said in his video that you only have order, order, order and no more chaos. (Sebastian: Yes) Which also gives you the necessary variety, so to speak. I think he said it like that, yes. He was just an ultra-productive machine, but he just didn't manage to scale the thing. Because he was too much in his own mind about his Happens. And didn't bring in a bit of something else (?thougt). He confirmed that in her, in his Thougts, because he talked about it himself. I think he then went over to L.A. from New York, to L.A.. And I think it was a bit like that, he also said, for example, that he had grown his hair long because he said he'd never had long hair before, but now he wanted to have long hair. And that was actually chaos for him because he always said to invest as little time as possible in his appearance and to make as few decisions as possible. He's a really crazy guy. He only ever wears the same shirt and in different colors so that he doesn't have to decide what to wear.

Sebastian: That's actually a crazy thing.

NielsHe only has a few shirts, one for each day, a few different colors, so he doesn't have to decide anymore. But, he just said a bit, precisely because he has this blatant structure. He needs a little twist (Sebastian: Yes, yes, yes) in his lifestyle. And I don't think it does us any harm from time to time. For example, I'm just thinking about traveling a bit more next year, going abroad a bit. I mean, the last time I was abroad was with Elliot in the USA in 2017 and even then I was relatively. So I was in the USA, but I hadn't traveled through the USA either. (Sebastian: Yes, yes, exactly) That was very, very focused and we worked there and stuff. And now maybe it's just really cool to bring a bit of variety into our lives. I mean, we're both very similar. Sitting here in our little villages. And (?chatting) here. (Sebastian: Yes, yes, yes) Yes, it's like that. But it gives you a lot of peace and quiet and has completely different advantages that you might not have in a life of adventure. Yes, just as an ending point. Do you have anything else to add Niels?

SebastianWell, I can definitely say that it's similar for me. I think it's just very dangerous if you don't maintain your few important social connections so well, if you don't tend to do it so well. So that's another difficulty if, let's say, you're made for sitting at home in your little place and working all the time, maybe you're more introverted and that doesn't take away as much energy as we've noticed. And I always realize that even if I only have something to do every two or three weeks on a Saturday evening with friends. Then I think to myself, until just beforehand, wouldn't I rather still be working today? And then relax and sleep afterwards and watch Netflix beforehand and start again tomorrow morning with a coffee. (Niels: Yes) Do I have to make such a mess of it now? And it always goes on for so long, even when I'm driving sometimes. But when I'm there - I think to myself every time - when I've done something and when I've done something with my friends again. It was great, it was great fun, it gave me energy and it fits. (Niels: Yes, well, of course, of course) And I think you also have to be very careful if you indulge in this productivity grind and do what all these Instagram quotes say and what these trainers tell you. That you don't isolate yourself in a cramp.

NielsYes, well, I think it can be a bit damaging for a while. So maybe you take it as productive as possible, but you end up with no friends and your social life is just fucked. I mean, we make a bit of fun of it. Partly, yes. (J: Yes, exactly) But-

SebastianWe take the mickey out of it a bit, but I say it's really not the norm that people in such a state, i.e. when you isolate yourself like that, are happy for a long time. (Niels: Yes, definitely) That's really not the norm and you should definitely protect yourself from that. No matter how much you want to cement this productivity and this grind into your brain, because that's just what they say with a double biceps pose in the Alpha Mentoring Group.

NielsDouble biceps courses (Sebastian: Joke, joke) Yeah, I know, it's a joke, but- (Sebastian: The good thing to say) - yeah, okay. All right, bro. (Sebastian: Yes) Cool episode.

Sebastian: Good One.

Niels: Cool story

Sebastian: Very interesting.

NielsYeah, nice, five stars and all, you know.

Sebastian: Yes, yes, that lousy, you know. Thank you for your time and we'll definitely see you in the next episode. Peace.